I don’t know, in my experience the sort of behaviour you were subject to is typical of insecure men who are above average in strength.
People are used to think that betas can only be WoW playing nerds, but there are lots of muscular, gymmaniacs betas.
Whenever you hear about a fight that broke out in a club, you can be sure it was either some muscular beta or a prole or both involved.
I find it amusing that posters are so quick to classify people willing to escalate minor social-dominance ploys into outright conflict as “beta”. They couldn’t be futher from the truth. These sort of people are alphas- but they are proles as well; physical dominance/fitness and social dominance is their sole way of displaying their alpha credientals- what else do you expect them to do- talk about their condos in fort greene and ivy league bonifides?
They are exerting physical dominance, and through it social dominance, and gaining mating opportunities from it- that is text book alpha.
I suspect that the “beta” comments are largely from intellectuals who would like to think that their smarts and upper class sensabities with tofu/soy latees and overt sensativity should make them more “alpha” (attractive mate material) then some roided meathead that knows how to shove.
The hatorade comes from them subconsciously knowing that this isn’t the case…
Amen to that, nyc. That’s one insight I wish et al would expand upon: the existence of multiple alpha-beta scales. A douchebag with orange skin, moussed hair, gold chains, and ‘roid muscles is stone Beta at a Yale alumni event, but he’s the primo stud Alpha on the Jersey shore.
(Though it should be noted the multiple scales are not entirely exclusive. A wealthy woman can fall for a muscular pool boy, and all the guidoettes fantasize about some sharp-dressed Wall Street guy picking them up in his Jaguar.)
“That’s one insight I wish et al would expand upon: the existence of multiple alpha-beta scales. A douchebag with orange skin, moussed hair, gold chains, and ‘roid muscles is stone Beta at a Yale alumni event, but he’s the primo stud Alpha on the Jersey shore.”
We call that situational value/confidence and it’s a good point to keep in mind. In one city I lived in, the atmosphere of the bars was very Jersey Shore so I learned to take girls from guys by literally TAKING girls from guys. Walk up, grab the girl, pick her up over your shoulder ass in the air, and literally walk off with her (even out the door of the club sometimes, bouncers hate that one lol). Verbal game didn’t mean much there, and guys who could physically dominate like that were high value in that environment. (oddly, you’d think this would lead to constant fights, but it doesn’t, the other guys were physically dominant too and most of the time would actually have a begrudging respect for you for out-playing them at their own game, like an intellect going “Touche’.” Physicality is their “language”)
Another city I lived in, the atmosphere was more Yale alumni at the bars and verbals and social proof were king. Physical stuff would put everyone, girls included, on your guard, because they were all worried about maintaining their socialite reputations and that kind of behavior was neanderthal and low value in that environment, so verbal wit and being able to lead social circles and demonstrate social calibration and intelligence was high value.
An idiot could argue that this is supplicating to women “do what you WANT, don’t try to be what SHE wants you beta white knight lolololz” but it’s just social calibration and choosing to demonstrate the part of your skillset/personality that will be the most efficient in your environment.
“(Though it should be noted the multiple scales are not entirely exclusive. A wealthy woman can fall for a muscular pool boy, and all the guidoettes fantasize about some sharp-dressed Wall Street guy picking them up in his Jaguar.)”
Also very true. There’ll always be a few girls who’ll respond to your type even if she “shouldn’t”. It’s just a lot harder if you’re in the opposite environment from your type because she’ll have extra Anti-Slut Defense worrying about what her peers think. It’s totally do-able, but the logistics are usually more fucked. Isolation and under-the-table number exchanges are good for these situations, where you’re removing the social pressure of her peers, and often she’s SO relieved to have found someone of your type and have this secret chance to go for it that she’ll make it extremely easy to fuck her compared to if she were in an environment with dozens of your type.
Nothing that happens in a club or bar is worth fighting over. Especially not being pushed out of the way by a drunk or for god’s sake fighting over a girl lol
The awareness game teaches you is only half the formula. The other half is the detachment from ego game should teach you. When you have the awareness but still have the ego, you feel “dissed” all the time because you see these little slights and have to save your pride by escalating it so you don’t feel like a bitch. And now you’re risking death, paralysis, or a lawsuit over something that didn’t need to happen.
A lot of guys who learn PUA game and our AMOG tactics go through this phase and are fucking impossible to hang out with during it. They see every interaction as a battle of alpha dominance and while those dynamics ARE always subtly going on, they’re obsessed with staying at the top of the pack even if it means other people find them obnoxious and rude. Everyone becomes an enemy, especially other guys, even friends. It takes a while before they realize that it’s okay to let most of that stuff go because it doesn’t really matter in the long-run and most people don’t even realize they’re slighting him. The lion learns he can laze in the sun and let the jackals nip at him because he knows when it really counts he can tear the fuck out of everything.
When you truly don’t care what other people think of you, walking away is easy. There are other bars, other nights out, and tons more women you can get.
“When you truly don’t care what other people think of you, walking away is easy. There are other bars, other nights out, and tons more women you can get.
Isn’t that like the lion leaving his pride?
You are spot on about not escalating because of ego (novices don’t realize this), but there are times when you surely need to escalate that have nothing to do with ego (intermediates don’t realize this).
Depends on what you’re leaving, obviously. Your lion’s pride isn’t “a drunk chick” or “a bar you like” and jackals aren’t “a guy who nudges you out of the way” or “a guy who calls you a faggot”.
That’s all walk-away-able. If your pride is “your LTR or children” and the jackal is “a guy trying to physically hurt them” that’s entirely different, out come the claws.
I think the biggest issue is that most people haven’t been through much in their life so they haven’t learned which is which. I have a hot-headed buddy who hates getting tooled by rich douches and wants to hit them. I had to tell him “dude if you start swinging every time a rich guy at a bar tries to tool you to impress some girls, you will be in multiple fights every night we go out. That shit just isn’t worth getting worked up over.”
If you go out once every month or so like most normal people (ie – not gamers), the guy bumping into you or spilling a drink on you or trying to tool you is a big deal because an “alpha battle” is such an unusual situation and you’re so unprepared for handling it. When you’re out every week it’s like fuck it, that stuff happens all the time, let it slide. There are girl’s over there, who cares what the guys are doing?
“The lion learns he can laze in the sun and let the jackals nip at him because he knows when it really counts he can tear the fuck out of everything.”
knowing that lions will get at hyenas if they get too close, i was skeptical about this assertion so i did a quick youtube and found proof that what you say is not true, at least on that particular point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r0aoLFltg
i agree about avoiding fights in clubs but also think ppl like the antagonist in the OP should be stood up to. if they aren’t, they just go around pushing everyone around and it becomes an acceptable method of behavior rather than one which should be quickly snuffed out in the most socially acceptable way possible. I think the OP handled it well, but if it ever gets physical even basic boxing or MA skills can quickly handle anyone dumb enough to get hostile on a whim.
Shit man, I’M not telling Christopher Walken he doesn’t know his wildlife!
Replace lions and jackals with rhinos and flies if you like. Or Mr Miyagi and the Cobra Kai.
The only problem with standing up to the guy in the OP is you won’t change anything. At best you’ll knock him out and he’ll wake up hungover and think you suckerpunched him and be even more angry the next time he’s out. At worst you’re going over that balcony you’re leaning on and he does a little jail time while you live in a wheelchair from landing on your neck.
The bar is such a unique testosterone rage charged atmosphere that it’s not worth getting into it there. That guy probably isn’t pushing little old ladies when he’s sober at the mall but when you feed him alcohol, play MMA fights on the TVs, add some rejection from girls at the bar, his GF making out with a guy downstairs, his boys egging him on, some jerk spilling a drink on him, etc. and you’re dealing with an entirely different person who’s not in a state of mind where he’s open to being taught lessons and changing his behavior.
…unless, you know, you stab him 50 times in the gut. I’m sure that would be convincing, but is that what you came out to the bar for?
Ignorance is only better if one is unaware of a need or desire.
In Gilbert & Sullivan’s “Pirates of Pensance”, the other pirates convinced the lead character that the only woman on the crew, his wet nurse, and the only woman he has ever met, was the finest woman on earth due to the crew’s assurance of such. He was all ready to marry her.
That was until he saw Linda Ronstadt, by chance.
In a like manner, if a man has no idea that he CAN get hot women, he is blissfully happy as a modern major beta getting a bone from a hog. Once he realizes there is better, ignorance of knowing HOW to get better women makes him most miserable.
The best comment here. Once you get a 10 you realize you were wasting your time with the 8s.
“I could be happy being poor, if I had never been rich.”
such as something along the lines of a calm and controlled line of questioning along the lines of what kind of man the bitch could expect to get and what kind of man she thought he was.
[Heartiste: Are you serious? This is a horrible answer. You're going to stand there and calmly ask a bitch a series of questions as if she were a panelist on Crossfire? No way, jose. Quippy one-liners are the way to go. "oh, so you're one of those" is the exact OPPOSITE of bitter-sounding, especially if you say it without any inflection. A short but cutting line like that will rev her hamster faster than an interrogation.]
Amusement instead of anger would have gotten you further. And, since the bitch probably only has a year of two of being attractive to men left in her life, amusement is easy for a man to feel who knows how fast women age.
A paid musician is quasi representing the place of business so you’d have less power to confront a bitch than a regular customer would, depending on how good you are with the management.
I’ve always said that bar managers in the USA should have an open anti-bitch policy where guys can report what they feel are unreasonable guests who lend an anti-male atmosphere to the scene and the manager can officiate. The results could be often enough in the female’s favor, where she’s given the benefit of the doubt, but the fact that the manager would officiate and decide would be enough to infuriate local feminists and change a bar’s atmosphere.
But, until men, and PUAs in particular, recognize that certain anti-male American club cultures need to be changed by the club managers themselves, change won’t happen.
Men have to stop patronizing clubs that promote bitchery. Nonstop loud music does this. DJs do this on purpose.
It’s already been discussed here that plenty of club employees like to foster an atmosphere where they, DJ’s bartenders and bouncers, get the best women while the male guests end up just footing the bill for the whole scene like chumps, while never being able to make their case for having status because of all the loud music.
It’s like the insecure bouncers, DJ’s and bartenders don’t want the male competition to be heard long enough to establish a level of status above their own.
The calm & controlled line of questioning can work, in terms of getting someone to 180 their behavior. Tom Cruise demo’s it here, check the way the prankster pretty much shits a brick. Cruise is staying calm and simply putting massive massive social pressure on the guy:
The vast majority of people can’t handle social pressure so they become kids caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I’ve used this style of reaction on bitchy cockblock girls and on AMOGs who tool me.
“Why are you being so rude to me? I’ve been nothing but friendly to you. Your friend and I were having a fun conversation and you’ve come over attacking me for no reason. That’s not cool. Why are you ruining your friend’s night? Why are you so hostile tonight?”
Usually the person’ll stammer and feel akward. You’re not saying it in a butt-hurt way, just in a calm “this isn’t how people behave, you know that, come on now” slightly scolding manner.
The trick from there that Cruise doesnt do in that video (cause wtf does he care about making friends with the guy) is once you pile the social pressure on (for cockblock girls I’ll get her friends on my side, for AMOGs I’ll get the crowd around us or the girls he’s trying to take from me on my side) you let it get to a point where it’s clearly super uncomfortable for the person…and then totally remove it by making a friendly gesture and giving them an out.
“it’s cool, I get it, we’re in a bar and you thought I was one of those creeper guys. You’re just protecting your friend. But I’m not one of those guys, and I think it’s cool that you’re looking out for your friend. Let me guess, you dragged her out tonight hey? You seem like the bar star of the group, I saw you busting moves on the dance floor earlier your friend and I like eachother, is it cool with you if we keep chatting?”
Or for an AMOG dude “it’s cool man, I’m not mad im just messin with ya. You’re a funny guy lol we’re cool man, what’s your name? (hand out for a handshake)”
The social pressure is SO akward for them that they’ll take the out you’re giving them because it alleviates the pressure.
Field-tested, many many times.
This isn’t the best approach, I prefer a quick witty line, I’m just saying its one that can work with the right frame and in situations where the person has no interest in playing back and forth with your wit.
The bar scene won’t change. Men compete against eachother for the hottest women. No one cares if you don’t get a chance to prove your worth…you just have to get better at gaming in that environment or do day game instead.
Nightlife caters to hot girls. The club with hundreds of hot women will make more money off losers buying those girls drinks and will have more lineups of people dying to get in than the “pro-male” sausage-fest club. Hot girls are top priority. You could be a doctor who’s saved thousands of lives but at the door to the nightclub the chick with the fake tits and her ass hanging out of her minidress is getting in first. Just accept it and learn to work around it.
For really loud enviros use more physical game instead of verbal. Grabbing, pulling, bringing them in close to hear you, etc. if that’s not your style go to a quieter bar.
In any club there are spots where the music isn’t as loud. Learn to spot these areas as soon as you enter a bar for the first time. Spots like behind a speaker instead of in front of them, or areas near the bathroom where the music isn’t as loud, or booth/couch areas where there aren’t as many speakers, sometimes there’s an upstairs or downstairs with quieter music, or an outdoor patio or smoking area. Try lounges instead of nightclubs they tend to be quieter (but the crowds are more cliquish). Avoid bars with live bands, the sound is usually cranked full blast in those and it’s impossible to talk or hear.
A nightclub isn’t a place where every guy prints out his resume and hands it to each hot girl to make his case so they can choose who the optimal suitor is. That’s a pipe dream lol don’t wait for that to happen, just adapt your skills.
The problem with those studies is that they always take average and above men as samples, then declare that looks in men play little or no role. I’ve tried game and all it did was destroy my confidence when women laughed out loud at my attempts and told me that that I’m too ugly to be making passes at girls.
Sure, “sociosexuality” is important, but only to those who pass the initial looks test.
You can improve your looks by being fashionable, style-conscious, having a good haircut, and doing what you can to improve your health.
Make sure your teeth are reasonably white and straight. I had a chipped tooth in the front, and it made a massive difference for me to get it repaired.
Get as healthy as you can. Lift heavy weights, eat a paleo diet, get at least 20 minutes of sun in mid-day. You WILL improve, if that is your desire.
Also, don’t focus too much on memorized lines. Get Roosh’s ‘Day Bang,” and learn indirect game.
I’m already doing all that. I just happen to have a torso deformity and a very ugly face. Exercise and generally taking care of myself has improved my life significantly, but I goddamn tired of trying different clothes and different hairstyles – nothing looks good on me. And all this reflects on my lack of sex life or rather lack of thereof – many women who have rejected me cited my looks as the main reason. Quite a few have said outright that they think a man with an appearance like mine has no chance.
A good looking guy has 20+ years of expecting good reactions from people.
An ugly guy has 20+ years of not expecting good reactions from people.
The type of reaction you expect radiates through your sub-communications and girls are experts at reading sub-communications. Even if you’re telling yourself “this will go well my new haircut is awesome!” if parts of your internal core will still post stuff like “I have an ugly face” (even if you just consider that a logical observation on your part) it will come thru in your vibe.
You know what guys who are naturally amazing with girls have going on in their head? “I am awesome. Awesome awesome awesome. Fuck I look good today! Oh shit I tripped but that was badass how I landed! Everything i do is awesome and im the Best! That chick wants me why else would she be in the same room as me, duh! Cause I’m awesome. 51% on my exam! I passed, I’m so awesome and I didnt even study which makes me more awesome!!”
Like its delusional which sounds retarded to normal sane logical guys. But they honestly can’t comprehend a girl not wanting them or that they aren’t 10/10 for any reason regardless of how ugly anyone else would think they are because their entire internal belief system is based around positive self talk and trust.
It’s not the best way to live, it can be obnoxious to be around people like that, but that’s how their mind works and it gets them attraction from girls. Your mind doesn’t work that way yet, but down the road it can. It’s just not going to come easy or fast for you compared to, say, an average looking guy who’s not ugly but not a supermodel so he doesn’t have a lot of reference experience going either way. That guy will have a much easier time because while he doesn’t have much good experience he also doesn’t have much negative experience to replace in his head.
It takes a long time and a lot of internal work and external experience before new beliefs take over that 20+ years of old beliefs. And you don’t just suddenly start getting positive reference experiences, you get more bad reactions with only the occasional glimpse here and there of “not horrible” reactions. It’s a rough journey if you’re starting out ugly and could take years, like 5-10, before you can really solidly replace those old beliefs.
Look into stuff by David DeAngelo, Brad Branson, Tyler Durden’s current stuff (there’s lots of videos on YouTube of him), Tony Robbins (the king of positive internal beliefs). These guys tend to focus more on rewiring your thinking vs giving you lines to say to make girls giggle. Once you handle your internal shit, that’s the time to get back into the giggly Mystery Method stuff.
Knew a guy with front teeth missing who totally believed he was hotter for it because it gave him “character, and girls hate those fake looking pretty-boys anyway.”.
Knew a guy who had cauliflower ears and totally believed he was hotter for it because it made him look “tough, and chicks like guys who can handle themselves, not pussies scared to fight”
Knew a super short guy with a small dick who totally believer he was hotter for it because “I get to do anal with every girl. I just tell em it’s so small it won’t hurt and they go for it lol”
Good luck with your journey, don’t give up!
Isn’t the first rule of game, to simply keep making passes until you are so desensitized rejection, no matter how harsh, no longer destroys your confidence?
Noone said life was fair, whatever that means. If you lack looks, things will be tougher. But absent gross physical deformity, I doubt there is any level of looks beyond which no woman will stoop, regardless of how high a guy’s sociosexuality is. And from there, it’s basically a numbers game, negatively dampened due to women’s preselection bias.
You try going at it for three years without anything even closely resembling success, then tell me about desensitization.
Was reading YaReally’s link about the Secret Society of Women (just further down) when a very similar situation to yours was discussed by some chick.
Notice how the guy is using the bare basics of game and getting some results:
Your mindset is wrong. You care about what women (and everyone else) think and say about you. None of that matters. What looks good on you is what you choose to look good on you.
Focus on only yourself. What you want for yourself. Not what they want. Don’t try to please them. That’s how you should treat most things in life.
Confidence is not something that can be destroyed by others. It’s much closer to a worldview, a perspective on things. To sum it up: “I come first! My desires are to be fulfilled no matter what!” Apply this to everything you do in life.
What’s three years when winning is your only option? Are you alive to do anything else but win and fulfill your goals? If you’re still alive you keep on trying until you win. There’s no other point in life then setting goals and working towards accomplishing them.
Also, did you at least chastise the women who laughed at you?
Here’s something to do. Go up a random attractive chick (shoot for the top, no bottom feeding) and call her a cunt, out of the blue. Then, come back and talk about desensitization.
Chick will react with words or a facial expression. You ignore whatever she says and troll her. “You’re so easy to troll” “You women are so easy to manipulate” “One word and I can own you” “You’re such robot, all programmed.” blah blah blah. Improvise into whatever you want or exit, doesn’t matter. Do this bit a few times until you tire of trolling them.
If you can’t gratuitously troll them you’re never going to learn any game.
[Heartiste: Funny thing is, he'll probably see some success with that "cunt/troll" game. I've said it before: if nothing else is working, go full asshole. There are more girls than you know who would sleep with a man who went the full asshole on them.]
“What looks good on you is what you choose to look good on you.”
My favorite quote to tweak for describing that mentality is “I don’t do it because it’s cool, it’s cool because I do it.”
It’s a subtle mental flip but a very important one. “I don’t wear this shirt because it makes me cool, this shirt is made cool by the fact that I’M wearing it.”
For the original poster, this isn’t to belittle torso disfigurements and shit ’cause you’ve probably heard gay feel-good “it’s what’s on the inside that counts” crap all your life over it, but it’s just to say that there IS a way around it. It’s just not as easy as someone telling you “feel good about yourself!”, it can be a massive undertaking that involves rewiring huge parts of your psyche and general world view, and could require a big chunk of your lfe to see results, let alone competantly master.
…but no one said it’d be easy, and like Brazen implies: what’s the alternative?
And as for three years, well… I guess I just don’t want a girl that bad to keep wasting time in hope all this public humiliation eventually pays off. Ugly as I am, people are already sometimes recognizing me on the street as the fucker who got thrown out of this or that bar for trying to flirt with the patrons.
But seriously, can you bring up any examples of men who only got their first game success after several years of fruitless attempts?
“But seriously, can you bring up any examples of men who only got their first game success after several years of fruitless attempts?”
There are TONS of them. A lot of guys start from pretty fucked up situations (that’s what causes them to type in “how do I talk to girls?” in Google and find pickup). Most of them give up once they realize it’s going to be hard work though, and then they tell people “that game stuff doesn’t work”.
“I guess I just don’t want a girl that bad to keep wasting time in hope all this public humiliation eventually pays off.”
The guys who succeed after not seeing success for years didn’t have this attitude, that’s the main difference. If it’s not important to you, that’s cool, pussy isn’t the end-all be-all of the universe, focus on whatever makes you happy in life. I don’t have a house like you, that was something you wanted and you went for and it’s not something that I want badly enough to focus on it right now, you know?
I wish the marketing for pickup wasn’t so “We’ll tell you the 3 magic lines to get supermodels in your bed tomorrow!!” but that’s what sells. I’ve been around since before The Game when it was less commercialized (people taught bootcamps for free) and there was an understanding across the community that this was something that would take a large chunk of your life to handle. I’m 7 years in, and there were a lot of shitty nights in those 7 years, but this was something I wanted bad enough to make it through all that and the results have been worth it to me.
Your self-defeating/hopeless internal beliefs come thru in your writing (Riff noticed it too) and now, like most people naturally do, you’ve created an identity for yourself to embrace and label yourself with, which is “the ugly guy who girls just laugh at”. That’s why I recommend focusing on inner game if you actually want to work on this part of your life. The results will come even SLOWER, but it’ll sort your internals out in the longrun.
But again, if you don’t want to, that’s cool, it sounds like you have the rest of your shit together and some of the best guys I know with girls let the rest of their lives fall apart (jobless, homeless, no hobbies, no money, etc.) all in the pursuit of pussy, so it’s not like you’re a piece of shit or anything lol
“men’s sociosexuality was attractive to women and showed incremental validity over and above men’s physical attractiveness.”
I imagine that this breaks down at the extreme right tail of the attractiveness curve (ie, that extremely good-looking are the exception to this rule).
But otherwise, yep.
Nope. Wrong headspace still. Extremely good looking guys get more opportunities thrown at them, but 1) most of them have never needed game so they don’t know what to do with those freebies and don’t get laid unless the girl is super up front and leads everything (which having to do makes them less attracted anyway) and 2) girls will point to a picture or video and say “that guy is hot i’d fuck him” but when the guy is actually in the room it becomes a sociosexualwhatever assessment instantly. Plus 3) an uglier guy with game can take the girl away from the guy unless she adamantly has “I want to fuck a guy with a 6-pack” just to cross it off her mental list. Also often guys who are extremely good looking are gifted attractive sociosexualwhatever traits. Everyone wants to be their friend (social proof), girls say he’s hot (preselection), he’s learned to expect good reactions (leading), he has a strong frame (frame control), etc. and that’s what gets them laid while guys sit on the sideline oblivious to those factors and go “it’s just looks man, whatever, I know they don’t matter but trust me, at the end of the curve it matters man!!”
Chicks only care about the emotions you make them feel. Seen and been a part of it so many times.
The guy to be scared of is the extremely good looking guy WITH game. One of my buddies is that and he slays it. Over 100 new lays this year and they come from everywhere from waitresses at restaraunts he’s at to girls from the bar to girls he passes on the street to Internet chicks to co-workers to his friend’s friends, 3somes, etc.
I’m not as good looking as him and I have to be on my game 100% just for the girls to not ignore me just to both talk to him. But it’s not his looks, it’s cause he has rock solid natural game. He has equally good looking friends and I have to throw girls at them to try to get them laid and they still end up driving the girl home for a kiss on the cheek. Terrible.
Every time you post a scientific study backing up stuff PUAs have already known for years I get the same feeling reading the studies that I’d get watching cavemen banging rocks together. “Come on guys, you can do it, you’re almost there, look it’s fire! See? Sparks make fire!! Good job guys, one day you’ll figure out how to make cars and TVs, what a day THAT will be for you!”
Everything in game is verifiable by simply going out frequently and trying, experiencing, and observing it in action right in front of you.
Tyler Durden from RSD put it best in this cocky audio seminar he gave way back before The Game came out:
“What about the notion that you don’t want to stand out too much? You don’t want to be too good looking or too ugly.”
“Why? Where’d you read that?”
“Psyche books or something…”
“Lemme tell you something, the guys who write those books don’t get laid. Mark my words, the work I’ve done on attraction will probably be examined by the academic community eventually. These guys that studied attraction for years and years will not be able to wrap their heads around the shit that I can do. How are they gonna’ wrap their heads around watching me roll up, breaking all their principles, and still getting girls? They’re not gonna’ be able to explain it.
You know who writes this shit? Nerds. Who don’t get laid. How many academic reports do you read of guys that laid 100 girls in 3 years? Seriously. It’s not something you read on MSN.com’s “10 funky ways to attract your partner”. If these guys are getting laid, it’s not because of their theories.”
Have to give props to YaReally. Solid commenter and 100% accurate.
I go out every night. And simply just being out in the field and continuously practicing game is all the evidence you will need to confirm that it works.
But I also enjoy that CH secures the bunker with scientific data further reinforcing the logical argument. It amuses me to berate haters and ugly women with facts.
haha thanks. I can tell you go out, it’s really obvious to me when people know what they’re talking about or are just bullshitting KJ theory.
I like The Chateau ’cause it hits that middle-ground of guys who aren’t obsessive enough to actually go full out into studying pickup and going out all the time, but who also are waking up from the Disney bullshit we were all fed growing up about how attraction works. They’re the guys who are realizing there’s something amiss, but need help pin-pointing exactly what’s going on because it’s such a mind-fuck.
So keep it up Chateau!
Also here’s a fun read. A bunch of dudes found a big forum where women anonymously confess cheating and stuff and the guys are all mind-blown by the shit they find on there.
“My boyfriend is perfect though … Are we whores because we have had sex with more than one guy (without counting the ones that don’t count like jerk ex boyfriends or jerk one night stands or black guys).”
“I was just having this discussion with the “other” guy. I told him if I left my husband then I would have nothing, no money, no car, no ability to sustain myself.”
“I think it’s like the 7 year itch. After I have been with my FWB, and I come home to my husband, it put’s a spark into our relationship. For me, feeling desired by someone other than my husband makes me feel sexier. I have told my FWB he’s my sex therapist ”
“my boss & i play grab ass when no one is looking too!! I’m not attracted to him outside the fact he is my boss & that fact along is such a turn on for me! I would love for him to throw me on his desk and “force” me to perform sexual acts on him!”
“he only fingered me, it doesn’t count!”
The guys reactions in the thread are funny becuase you can see the Disney “girls are innocent flowers” illusions being shattered as they read the forum.
Learn to make a woman feel like she can truly open up to you with absolutely no judgement from you and you will hear them tell you to your face some of the most fucked up shit you can imagine, with excitement in their voice, not shame.
Effective frame control involves disrupting the fundamental assumptions (the “interpretation of events”) behind her comment and replacing these with your own. It needs to be done with conviction.
…And while your comment clearly does the later, it doesn’t really replace her original assumptions (or wisecrack) at all about the mess being permanent. It frames her comment as a sort of bluff (which you call) but doesn’t negate the assumption behind it. Why not say something instead that actually replaces her frame and doesn’t just reject her for it.
[Heartiste: There are many ways to reframe. One of them is to utterly destroy a competing frame by refusing to acquiesce to its tacit message. In this case, I am relaying an example that demonstrates the effectiveness of a reframe that doesn't even directly address the underlying assumptions. SInce I was in no mood to parry frames, a simple nuke of her frame was all that was needed. See: Don Draper, for plenty of examples of this.]
You can just use “No, it’s cool.” for pretty much anything. Even when the words don’t make sense, it’s the intent/frame behind it they pick up on and fall into if you have a strong frame.
“this bungalow isn’t good enough for me”
“no, it’s cool. C’mere (makeout)”
“why don’t you have a car? I don’t date guys who don’t have cars.”
“no, it’s cool. What makes you think I want to date you?”
“that shirt is gay”
“no, it’s cool. What are you guys up to?”
(angry guy) “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
“no, it’s cool. What’s your name man? (hold out hand for a handshake)”
Endorsing these strategies is really no different than women endorsing “nice guys” the endorsement is only true for men who are “already within her erotic purview.” A beta male, an unattractive man, a nerd, etc. – who tries any of these childlike games will appear to be hideously immature and socially ignorant. An already-sexy man who tries these games will find that they allow him escalate kino and attraction faster. Sexy men can get away with murder (sometimes literally!).
As such, I think that these games don’t really help unattractive men in any fundamental way…
[Heartiste: Sure they do, as long as the beta has the confidence to pull them off. Now please go troll another blog. Your kind has 'been here, done that', and your objections have been answered many times before. That you refuse to engage those objections in good faith suggests you are a troll of the nth degree.]
Troll or keyboard jockey.
“If it worked when you were in kindergarten, it works now.”
Don’t become a dancing monkey with it though. Remember that it’s not the game that’s building attraction it’s what the game demonstrates about you that does (showing you aren’t trying to impress her, instigating touch, teasing, self-amusement, etc). With the wrong frame shit will come off weird (like Horse Girl).
Why would I want to convince someone that game works? Hey, I’ve learnt about this thing that means I can have sex with a shitload more women than I could otherwise. If a guy doesn’t believe it works, I don’t give a shit. That’s one fewer guy I have to outgun. If a girl doesn’t believe, I don’t care. I don’t get paid to convince people of obvious shit.
lol this is why we don’t give a shit about the MRA guys. Oh noes someone disagrees with pickup concepts. Like we haven’t been thru that a thousand times with people who’s opinions we actually give a shit about.
PUAs don’t give a shit about MRAs. They’re creepy and angry to us and seem like exactly the types who’s benefit from getting laid lol
“BIG POST: The Ultimate Post on Why Long-Term Monogamy Doesn’t Work”
For the MRA guys here’s the general PUA view on marriage. We don’t sweat marriage laws because we don’t want to get married. It’s very clearly a losing proposition for a guy these days so fuck it.
That’s what I’ve been saying for over a decade: you treat a woman in a way that best instills her adoration towards you. That means usually doing the exact opposite that love advice columnists recommend.
I’m not being an asshole to women, I’m proving to them that I stand my ground.
I spent the evening with my #1 this Saturday. She was getting on my nerves a bit, so I raised my voice slightly and told her to knock it off. She immediately gave me the sad face, and then for the next 2 hours she became much more silent.
I told her many hours later that I was impressed that she was so quiet (versus her usual over-chatty self), she said “I don’t want to say anything because I’m worried you’ll yell at me again.” I gave her a loving fist to the shoulder lightly, smiled, and said “You’re always such a good girl to me.”
After her self-inflicted time-out, she couldn’t stop touching me, offered me constant blow-jobs (I don’t like riding the crimson tide) and took care of me once again before I went on my way in the morning.
Feminists would say that I treated her ill, but in reality I beat her challenge to her test of my masculinity. Any other guy I know would likely ask her “What wrong, baby?” I did the opposite, went on my way, and won the tiny battle her internal army waged against mine.
Treating a woman right means proving that you’re masculine through actions alone, and that you’re higher status than her.
Hey, random, but does having long hair/a mane get positive responses from women? I think it’s time to change it up from the usual cropped office-drone.
Jews hate my long hair (75% of my clients, and confirmed). Ugly women hate it.
Hot women are 50/50.
It’s too easy to look metal or Magic:the Gathering. I wear it ponytailed when I ride horses or surf, loose when rockin a suit, covered head in skullcap (think: Leon the Professional) otherwise.
It does offer IOIs regularly and randomly, but plenty of haters.
Great, thanks. I thinned it out and made it all scraggly looking like yours. What do you think: http://www.turnbacktogod.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/jesus-christ-on-cross-0103.jpg. Yours is definitely more wispy though, color me jealous since I’m going for the pathetic martyr look. llzoz.
Good god people, A.B. Dada and xsplat, the two people you should NOT be taking game advice from.
-Dada admits he avoids bars and clubs. If you’re taking PUA advice from someone who can’t get the good pussy at a club, move on.
-Dada admits he only fools around with rural low-status women. That’s barely, and I do mean barely, above xsplat’s domain of ESL Taiwanese teens. Dada is the white trash version of some Latino gang-banger from the ‘burbs of LA telling you ‘tell that bitch to shut up.’ Gee, I wonder why women aren’t flocking to Anaheim looking for dick.
Psychological profile- blabbermouth neurotic. Also, pathological liar. This fucking guy talks about what he does to hold down long term relationships in the same paragraph he refers to his “The Rotation.” (Who actually does that, btw). You’re a fucking liar and weird. Yeah, I’m calling you out. How many people going somewhere with their lives post their real identity on a PUA website? A: None.
You’re a one post per thread kind of guy. At best. And even then, what you post is shit. You take your crappy little fly-over state life experiences and then pretend like it applies to all women, or all of game, or somehow black and white truths can be drawn from them. It’s fucking retarded. It’s like me saying:
Hey guys, here is the best way to use game and get a blowjob. Join the track team your freshman year of high school. Befriend all the girls. Sophomore year, throw a party at the house of the “bad” girl on the team. Bring weed, introduce girl’s track team to getting high. Later that night, when everyone is passing out, start hooking up with the girl closest to you on the couch. Get blowjob under the blanket. That’s how you get blowjobs.
Maxim: To get a blowjob, get girls high and hook up with them after.
Oh, and shut the fuck up about your shitty little consulting practice. You may not know, but outside Peoria oddjob consultants are laughed at and given a wider berth than bums and lawyers.
tldr; A.B. Blablah gets crucified by a jew.
I love you.
Laugh all you want, but a man with options has nothing to hide behind. Hell, I’ve read and commented on the Chateau with a member of The Rotation laying next to me.
To the rest… not everyone who likes Game sites is a PUA. 95% of men are wanting LTR but need to understand how to best handle one. To have a successful LTR one must be the master of their lives. That means keeping options open, not living with one-it is, being self-employed, saving capital over frittering it away.
My dames generally know who else is out there, and why shouldn’t they?
As for consulting in Peoria…I’ve been on 6 continents this year — provably pulling a solid income, traveling first class more than half the time.
What do you pull, Jesus? Want to compare D&B ratings? I have 19 years of them filed away. How’s your financial profile?
Put it out there, or bring it to my face and we’ll se e who is left standing.
For your own sake man: You’re qualifying yourself to an annonymous person on the Internet who doesn’t give a shit about your financial profile. The second you started defending yourself and listing your credentials is the second you lost that.
This is why even with no financial profile I take girls from rich guys who think anyone really cares about that shit lol
MRA are right, you actually CHANGE yourself to please women.
[Heartiste: Do women roll out of bed in the morning as is?]
This is pure bullshit, no man should ever change himself for the sake of the others.
[Must be nice living in that hermetically sealed perfect world you inhabit.]
CH is right. If you cannot ever get laid or do not possess any game, you really NEED to learn it. It is a choice between getting laid or not. And maybe after the change you’ll feel better than before ?
In the end no one but yourself cares about it.
Still this is stupid there is a war between MRA and PUA. Well commercial PUA sucks, stupid society where we need to be fake and pay in order to get laid.
[Pay? I'm with Roosh. I keep my cost-per-lay as low as possible without coming across like a cheapskate. It helps weed out the genuine loving girls from the golddiggers.]
Heartiste wrote: “If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication and enslavement, then I don’t want to be emancipated.”
Perfectly put. Sums it all up, that sentence should be both “Maxim #1″ and the First “Commandment of Poon.” It is the central principle that both limits and empowers game.
The slave either fights his circumstance or makes his peace within it. Heartiste’s mode is the latter, a rationalization that draws on the obvious benefits of demure female company while disregarding the possible ill-effects of a life built around any monomania. Those who claim to have bigger fish to fry are considered by Holelier-Than-Thou PUA-wannabes as insufficiently monomaniacal about the greatestest thing like ever and like you must be a fag who doesn’t like vag if a man fails to regard the frantic satisfaction of more and greater physical pleasures to be the summum bonum for life in the universe.
(Now have at me, groupies. Let’s hear about my insufficient libido or improper understanding of game or ignorance of evolutionary psychology or whatever feather excites your peppy little sphincters for the thousandth time, you obedient bitches.)
It is progress for Heartiste to call enslavement by its proper name, no matter how many “If lovin the Lord is wrong, I don’t wanna be right!”-type assertions are added to the end of it.
Anonymous is correct that the “war between MRA and PUA” is stupider than the “second stupidest game meme,” but mostly because there is no proper war, and the meme is an obsession of the dickless: Male Rights Activists (dread term) aren’t fighters or achievers; they are whiners and scolds, worse than feminists in a way. At least feminists have straightforward penis envy based on what God gave (or neglected to give) them. MRA’s chop their own genitals off and then commence with their green-eyed covetousness of the Big Swinging Dicks still bludgeoning the world around them.
“Those who claim to have bigger fish to fry are considered by Holelier-Than-Thou PUA-wannabes as insufficiently monomaniacal about the greatestest thing like ever and like you must be a fag who doesn’t like vag if a man fails to regard the frantic satisfaction of more and greater physical pleasures to be the summum bonum for life in the universe.”
Again, please quit speaking for PUAs when you have no experience with what we do. A ton of pickup teaching these days is about developing other parts of your life and not putting girls up on a pedestal.
You are arguing against pickup from The Game’s era. It’s evolved since then the way our knowledge of flight has evolved since the Wright Brothers.
Either go out and practice current teachings or please stfu with your bullshit “puas think this and that” crap. You’re acting like an overdramatic feminist telling people men all want to rape every women they meet.
You write very eloquently, I just wish you weren’t writing ignorant shit.
uhh just to point out: There’s no war. PUAs pretty much have no idea MRAs exist. I’ve been around a long time and had never even heard the term MRA till I saw it in a comment on here.
Also pay? Wtf?
Ask some MRAs what’s more important: using the money saved from getting the excessive child support reduced in order to go fishing or using the money saved in order to have a decent enough apartment to support the interest of a really hot young replacement for his aging ex-wife, and he’ll look at you with a blank stare like the latter concept is something strange.
Oh, but didn’t you know, the advantages of a great bachelor pad are all in your mind! If you only stop having those limiting beliefs, you’d no longer acrue any advantage from one!
Peter Pan Principle PUAs piss me off.
Here, here. All a bachelor pad needs to be is clean. Looks clean, smells clean. That’s it.
Once you get a girl to come over, decor and furniture are the last things on her mind. As long as everything looks clean and smells clean, she’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I’m tempted to take a pic of one of my buddy’s bathroom. There’s grout all over, dust, hairs, dirt, grime, when you turn on the fan dust comes out.
He fucks new and returning girls in it every week. Sober, drunk, day, night, classy girls, innocent girls, slutty girls…
If a girl rejects you because of your place, you’re not attracting her enough. This is where normal guys who get shut down about their place should be going “huh maybe that pua stuff I make fun of could actually help me here”.
Or, you know, base your self worth on external stuff and work a shit-load of overtime being miserable to pay for a swank apartment with a maid. That’s cool with me, I like when girls take me to their boyfriends’ nice apartments to fuck. Please stock the fridge with Coronas for us.
“That’s cool with me, I like when girls take me to their boyfriends’ nice apartments to fuck.”
What are your insights on cheating bitches?
Are they just fucking around because they’re tired of their beta boyfriend, or are they just slutty and don’t give a fuck if their bf is alpha or beta?
I’m asking this cause this blog advocates alphaness as the ultimate anti-cuckoldry technique, I wonder if it eliminates or just reduces the risks.
[Heartiste: There are no guarantees of fidelity. There is only more faithful and less faithful. Being a man women love will reduce the risk, of course. As will dating higher class girls. The best predictor is simply screening for girls who don't have a lot of slut tells, or a long sordid history of cock hopping.]
Heartiste’s answer is dead on.
I wrote a blog post just for you on my blog. Hope you got a chance to read it.
I think you are self hypnotizing yourself with feel good dogma, just so that you don’t lose confidence.
Yes, we agree, that part of attraction is charisma, and that does a lot.
But if you are not able to see that money and displays of money and status are attraction triggers for females that work alongside with and boost your game above game acting alone, then you’ve never had money.
It’s only loony to you because it’s so far outside of your reality that it would be a mindfuck to accept it right now. From your blog:
“It’s as if you either don’t know, or don’t want to know the difference your pad can make.”
I’m aware. I’ve fucked girls in swank places and I’ve fucked them on friends’ old futons. Hell, there was a point where I had literally no furniture and had to sleep on a hardwood floor. Tyler Durden lived on a matress in a closet. It’s not relevant unless you want to be a provider for a girl and she’s looking at you through that lens.
“I’ve had a regular fuck buddy come to my new hotel, and refuse to fuck me as it was too downscale.”
This is the same as the guy who says “that girl was into me but then she saw that my shoes aren’t nice shoes so she didn’t want to fuck me anymore ” If she’s paying attention to your shoes or the niceness of your hotel, you’re not that attractive to her at that moment.
“I’ve had another girl take one look at the inside of another bungalo and tell me flat out that it wasn’t good enough for her”
wtf? What do you when you take a girl home? Give her a tour of the place and ask her what she thinks? Pour her a glass of wine and put on some Barry White? You should be pinning her up against the wall a finger deep before you even get in the door.
“The first time I had an entrepreneurial high swing I was surprised to have first dates start telling me what a “great personality” I had.”
Same as the guy who buys a new shirt and thinks it’s a lucky shirt because he’s suddenly getting all these compliments. It’s not the shirt, it’s because he’s attached his sense of self-worth to external things like having nice clothes, so he carries himself better and gives off a better vibe.
I’m not saying an entrepreneurial high swing DOESN’T help you, it aligns a bunch of nice shit in your head. But understand that it’s that nice shit in your head that attracts women, not the high swing itself, and that you can have that nice shit in your head by default 24/7 if you quit attaching your worth to external devices.
“Wealth and power and status are in and of themselves attraction triggers.”
No, power and status are attraction triggers. Wealth is irellevant. And you can have power and status with no wealth. Wealth is irellevant to women unless they’re looking at you as a provider instead of a sexworthy guy.
“But if you don’t know the difference that money can make, you’ve never had money.”
Game PLUS money is nice, the money provides you access to more environments where you can meet more women, but the money and job success isn’t what attracts the women. If your worth isn’t attached to your money, having it or losing it won’t affect your confidence and your ability to get quality girls. See the jobless alpha male who doesn’t care that he hasn’t paid his rent in 2 months. Or the depressed rich guy who’s bored with money because he wishes instead that he was jacked like Schwartznegger…if he was just a few inch bigger in his biceps THEN he can trade up!
If you attach your self worth to money, and you make money, yes, it’ll help you feel confident. But what happens if you lose that money? Or if you’re in an environment where money isn’t a mark of status? Or if you meet people who don’t place high value on money (aka people who’ve grown up rich)? What happens is you tell yourself your $800/mo mattress on the floor isn’t high status enough because your self-worth bottoms out even though the reality is nothing about you as a person has changed.
We’re speaking two different languages here and I’m honestly trying to help you because I understand why you’re limiting yourself the way you are. Most of us are that way, I used to be, it’s the way society raises us. Your beliefs are very common and society perpetuates it because a lot of people benefit when you build a business from the ground up providing jobs for people and pay a ton of money to people for two luxury apartments and fancy dinners and such.
But you can drive up in a Ferrari and not only will you not be able to take girls off an $800/yr matress on the floor guy with solid inner game, but he’ll take the girls you drove up with. Seen it (and been it) again and again. That’s not talking smack, that’s experience.
“I think you are self hypnotizing yourself with feel good dogma, just so that you don’t lose confidence.”
That’s because you don’t go out and work on your game and see this stuff first-hand. You’re too busy making excuses, even if they’re valid ones like wanting to put time in on your business or being content with a girlfriend. But at the end of it, you’re not going out gaming and crushing your limiting beliefs. It has nothing to do with chanting feel-good dogma sitting in my computer chair every weekend.
“But if you are not able to see that money and displays of money and status are attraction triggers for females that work alongside with and boost your game above game acting alone, then you’ve never had money.”
You can keep saying this, but it still won’t be true. I already linked the Blueprint clips where he talks about it, but I’ll summarize the important part: If you want to be a provider, money is great, but it will hinder a girl from sleeping with you because she’ll categorize you as a provider instead of a guy to fuck that night. I know a guy who actually has to NOT tell girls he’s successful because then they tell him shit like “this bungalo isn’t good enough for me”.
Money doesn’t attract women, the way other people respond to you when you have money is social proof and that’s what attracts women. When the waiter addresses you by name and takes you to your VIP table and the manager comes out to shake your hand, the chick is attracted. It’s not because of the money you have, it’s because of the way those men are treating you as high status.
But if you’re simply a cool guy with good social skills, you can get that exact same reaction from those guys, and you’ll get the exact same attraction from the girl. Because it was never about the dollar bills, it was about how people respond to you.
Try an experiment: Get yourself alone with a girl, nobody else around, and then ask her to count the dollar bills in your wallet. Watch how fast she jumps on your cock. (how do I make a sarcastic smiley-face here?)
You can’t even imagine how many guys I see dropping hundreds of dollars on girls, and my buddies and I can just walk up and take them off them without a sweat. It’s hilarious. I’m talking guys wearing expensive suits who tell girls about their private jets and are literally pulling out actual wads of hundred dollar bills to buy rounds of shots/drinks for people. Hell, half the time I have those guys buying ME drinks by the end of the night lol
But their self-esteem is attached to their money and they’re left going “wtf!” when the girls walk off on our arms, home to our shitty apartments to fuck them in grimey bathrooms.
Go out more, you’re spouting theory and anecdotal evidence, not experience.
Listen hard. The movie Revolver and Fight Club are about this concept too.
Happiness and high self-confidence are a default state, not a state you have to try to achieve. Society just puts a lot of barriers on it so we don’t all walk around as cocky alphas cause that’s not good for society.
You should be as confident in your $800/yr pad as you are in your bachelor pad and you should be able to get the same girls. If you can’t, you’re not done working on your inner game. If the girl is basing her attraction on your apartment, you’re in a provider beta role to her, not an alpha “I hope I’m good enough for this amazing alpha male to impregnate me” role.
I know that’s a hard ego hit to take. Every skilled PUA has gone through it. Shed the ego or you’ll be trapped by it.
Also your adherence to game and only game above all borders on religious. And using Tyler Durden as your proof – a man standing on a stage preaching. What logical fallacy is that? Appeal to authority.
Experience of thousands of men is available online – and they have concurred. Money is an advantage. In the real world, off the stage.
You don’t have to be a true believer in game in order to boost your confidence. Game works. Money does too. No contradiction.
“And using Tyler Durden as your proof – a man standing on a stage preaching.”
lol Tyler’s credentials are solid.
“Experience of thousands of men is available online”
Experience of betas is not relevant to alphas.
“You don’t have to be a true believer in game in order to boost your confidence. Game works. Money does too. No contradiction.”
It’s not about belief. It’s about experience.
You keep saying stuff like “If you can’t see that money boosts your game, then you’ve never had money.”
Well if you can’t see that money is irrellevant, then you’ve never had hardcore success in pickup.
“Yareally, you are actually positing that money is not an attraction trigger.”
Only for golddiggers and only for beta providers. If you’re a loser with no game and you’re begging your way into the pants of girls who are looking for a provider to take care of them while they fuck alpha males, then yes, money is totally an attraction trigger.
I’m sorry if this comes as a mindfuck to you. Go out more.
“And if I recall correctly, there have been studies that prove that money is an attraction trigger.”
OMG a scientific study!!11111 Asking women what they think is attractive!! That is TOTALLY the way to figure this shit out. Fuck going out and actually trying the shit I told you to try, that’d take effort and an ego hit. You know what, let’s just ask women what they want in a man? I heard there’s scientific studies that saw women want nice guys who buy them pretty things! That is teh way for teh attraction!11
“And your idea of finger fucking every date before getting into the door is the very strangest unrealistic bragging I’ve ever heard. Makes you seem a bit of the keyboard jockey.”
Oh zing, you 180′ed that on me using the term “keyboard jockey”! Nice move! Seriously, have you even been laid before? Have you ever had sex with a girl on the first date? Or within a few hours of meeting her? Like, you can pretend this is all impossible but my friends and I do it all the time. It’s not difficult when you have game.
You clearly don’t go out, you clearly don’t have game, you clearly don’t even understand game, and I don’t think you’re a virgin but you sure as shit aren’t a guy that gets laid regularly by hot chicks. It’s written all over your posts and beliefs.
But hey, cling to whatever helps you sleep at night. That’s way easier than admitting you suck and working to fix yourself. Just make sure to stock the coronas.
I was being sarcastic.
For any who have had the experience to compare, they will note a definite advantage to the bachelor pad.
This is NOT to argue that you can’t get laid without a bachelor pad.
But an advantage is an advantage.
If you are running at 100% top of your game without a bachelor pad, you will be running at greater than 100% of your usual game with one. Because a bachelor pad is an attraction trigger, over and above your very best game.
And any improvement can translate into fucking girls who you would not otherwise fuck.
Men who have had both bachelor pad and not will concur.
“Because a bachelor pad is an attraction trigger, over and above your very best game.”
Nope. You can keep repeating it, but it won’t become true. Go out more, take more girls home. Start telling them you work as a janitor. Start making them pay for your drinks and cabs. Start taking them to your buddy’s couch instead of your awesome bachelor pad. Start picking them up wearing a t-shirt and jeans. Start picking them up and telling them they’ll have to take the bus home in the morning. Start picking them up and fucking them in alley-ways or bathrooms.
It’s all irrelevant when you know what’s actually an “attraction trigger”, and it’s not what your gay MSN “how to get the girl in 10 easy steps: step 1) clean your car, step 2) get a haircut” articles and “you have to mirror her body language, then release your pheromones!” scientific studies tell you.
…again, unless you want to be her beta male provider. I’m starting to suspect you’re that type.
New Cain accuser says she traveled to DC to meet with him about him helping her find a new job.
He made a pass at her as he was driving her around after drinks in which she was friendly to the guy she wanted help from.
She was not his employee at the time.
Of course a guy would expect a favor for private help. This was not an employee of his.
This is an outrageous release of what happened in a private interaction between non-coworkers.
This puts men in future jeopardy for asking for sexual favors for any favors from female friends or acquaintances.
She was not an employee. She told Cain that she had a boyfriend at the time but so what. She was asking Cain as a friend to help her get a job and he may have, rightfully, asked for a favor like that.
Cain doesn’t have the balls to admit he wanted her to suck his dick in return for doing her a favor.
Why should a man have to admit this publicly? Feminists are the ones who want to bring men’s private desires into the light of day for scrutiny. We know male desires are not seen as politically correct when women have the vote.
There is no moral imperative for him to have to publicly describe a private interaction. Apart from the alleged head pulling toward the crotch, it would have been reasonable for him to have made a smoother move.
[Heartiste: This Cain thing reeks of a coordinated campaign. Nevertheless, pulling a girl's head into your lap is not good game. It's anti-game.]
“Nevertheless, pulling a girl’s head into your lap is not good game. It’s anti-game.]”
Heh. No there are times but it takes a shit-ton of social calibration, reading the girl’s level of attraction VERY accurately, juggling her LMR and ASD, and having a very sexual vibe.
My buddies and I do stuff like that all the time. You can even just whip your dick out and put her hand on it. This is all very advanced shit newbies shouldn’t mess with but it’s there.
Caine is a creeper with no game. Being ballsy is not the same as being good.
I’ve always liked this blog because it was about male/female relationships from a “red-pill” perspective (game), and it also had some MRA topics mixed in and an overall anti-feminist attitude.
A couple of years ago when I first starting reading blogs around what’s known as the manosphere I thought Game and the MRA would mix together nicely – men taking on feminism from all fronts, from personal relationships to the legal and social in the larger culture. But it hasn’t really happened.
Novaseeker, or Brendan, has a good explanation why on Gucci Little Piggy, Chucks blog.
You are right In my view MRA’s and gamers combined with the MGTOW crowd will have a huge effect on feminism.I sent heartsie a link to a video of Kate Bolick on the today show and it was an awesome public display of the dynamics we speak of hear. The MRM needs to get as many woman as possible into involuntary childless spinsterhood. Any man with the slightest knowledge of game can see whyand where this is going. As an MRA I see nothing wrong with men that are into wearing out pussy. The cock carousel comes in handy for an MRA trying to make old spinsters. You cock carousel operators provide a valuable service. Also the concept and aplication of game will protect my son from feminism. He’s 5 now but I have enough sense to know he will be one horny dude come 14 to 30 and will need to know and understand how to control it with out being taken like a chump. In ten years if I can’t get things rolling the misandry may be so bad my boy could lose his life with out game.
“The MRM needs to get as many woman as possible into involuntary childless spinsterhood.”
Ya this is the weirdly angry “let’s get thise bitches!!!!” creepy vibe I’m talking about when I say I glanced at some MRA stuff and was weirded out. PUA teachings dont have this “gotta punish them” mentality, especially these days.
Well, game is basically trying to weasel around a woman’s mental defences
[Heartiste: No. Game is about conveying your masculine allure in the best possible way so that women experience pleasure in your company.]
and trying to get her to sleep with you
[All men are trying to get women they like to sleep with them, game or no game.]
and keep her doing what you want her to do.
[Do women not have volition? Are they empty vessels? Walking pussies, into which willpower and intent and penii are poured?
No free woman is forced to keep doing what her man wants without her consent to oblige, unless she is physically coerced or threatened, which is not the way of game.]
Fail that and you’re facing a strong persistent need for sex which doesn’t get satisfied unless you do something.
[Women need. Men want.]
A man is then a slave to his nature,
[So are women.]
dependent on women for happiness,
[Not solely. But involuntary celibacy is a leading indicator of unhappiness.]
but he doesn’t want to stop being that.
[Struggling against human nature has been the cause of so much pain and anguish.]
It doesn’t mean you’re supplicating women or do everything they want you to do, but you’re still a slave in a way.
[According to your very broad definition, everything with a biological basis is a slave. Maybe that view is correct, but it's ultimately pointless. It doesn't even rise to the level of a trollish semantic campaign.]
Let’s assume you are a slave to getting pussy. What’s the best way to unshackle yourself?
Well, one could argue that a person is a slave to food if they don’t get food and must spend a lot of time searching for food. How does a person overcome this monomaniacal focus on food? They learn to hunt.
I’ll let you put all that together.
Wait, no I won’t because you might not do it right.
If someone has a certain deficiency they focus a lot of psychic energy on that deficiency. Best then to learn how to fill that deficiency, and the best way to do that is to learn about a system that they can implement in lean times. This is very empowering and soul-satisfying.
Yes, you do what you can with what you have, it’s the only thing you can do anyway. Although some buddhists go for destruction of all their needs, which is not for everyone. I’d personally go for a combination of both. Whatever works best for you. I don’t think either of those methods is more moral than the other, and both make you strong in different ways.
Buddhism and PUA have WAY more in common than MRA and PUA.
In what way? I guess I can see how both of the former just take things as they are and go with the flow (unless I misunderstand buddhists), MRAs want to change everything.
Yes. Exactly. We aren’t out to change the universe, we just accept it for what it is.
There are other principles too, like not associating your worth with material things, destroying the ego, not taking value from people, seeking higher purpose, letting things (feelings, attachment to stuff) go, not being outcome-dependent, etc.
This is more in the advanced stages after you’ve done your dancing monkey fuzzy hat time.
Glad you replied to my post. It wasn’t meant to be insulting and there was no need to react so negatively.
“No. Game is about conveying your masculine allure in the best possible way so that women experience pleasure in your company”
Yeah, maybe I worded that badly, I just meant that you have to pass the ASD and her fear of STDs and all that. Of course it’s more than just passing those.
“All men are trying to get women they like to sleep with them, game or no game.”
“Do women not have volition? Are they empty vessels? Walking pussies, into which willpower and intent and penii are poured?
No free woman is forced to keep doing what her man wants without her consent to oblige, unless she is physically coerced or threatened, which is not the way of game.”
I didn’t say it was coercion, it’s manipulation. You don’t need to force someone to make them do what you want. And manipulation is a negatively charged word, but it’s not fundamentally bad.
“Women need. Men want.”
Ah, I would be extremely happy if some proof for that appeared, because the only men I know that don’t need sex are older MGTOWs who don’t have that much testosterone or sex drive anymore. Everyone else really does need it, and women, with their lower sex drives, are able to live without sex just fine much longer. That’s why I think no sex-needing man is truly alpha to the core (he can be alpha by your definition of course, no problem with it). Needing is beta. Where am I wrong?
“So are women”
Yeah, never said anything else.
“Not solely. But involuntary celibacy is a leading indicator of unhappiness”
Not solely, but it’s hard to be incel and still be happy. Maybe if you have little sex drive anyway, or your hamster is rationalizing it, or you’re just that strong, but most people aren’t.
“Struggling against human nature has been the cause of so much pain and anguish”
So you are pretty much agreeing with me. Not sure why you call me a troll then, you even said it yourself. If enjoying women is slavery, you don’t want to be freed.
Just a note: if you’re good, you don’t get ASD or LMR or STD worries or anything. Think of it like how a family member can give you $5 and you’ll take it with no second thoughts but a stranger offering you $5 will make you hesitate wondering whats the catch, and a creepy stranger awkwardly offering you $5 might make you flat out refuse it.
A good PUA builds the same comfort you have with close friends and family or that you had with your favorite boyfriend, but in a really short window of time.
This is why I keep riffing on the “she saw my crappy apartment and said it wasn’t good enough for her” guys. They’re the stranger offering a $5 and don’t realize it yet.
Umm. Actually game allows me to get better pussy both faster and cheaper. In other words I have a lot more time and money to spend on the other shit I love.
Game does not make you a man a slave it frees him
“Umm” is the affectation of a tweedy sarcastic twerp. Get rid of it, “Alpha.” HTH
Your cartoon-character views in action yet again.
“Game is just learning how to supplicate to women and be a slave to women’s desires.”
If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication and enslavement, then I don’t want to be emancipated.
Certain quarters of the MRA movement have a lot in common with feminists. I wonder if they are aware of the similarities?
I see what you have in common with feminists.
[Heartiste: Comeback of the year.]
“If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication…”
Dont you mean:
“If expending great amounts of time and effort and probably destroying your male identity in order to have sex with women is supplication…”
[Why would I mean something that was loaded with as many false premises as you have here?]
Did you phrase it on purpose like that or did it just come naturally?
[Wouldn't you like to know.]
How is it possible that you can deny that spending time pursuing women is not supplication?
[Ya know, if you want to meet women and fall in love some day, you'll have to make some sort of move. They aren't going to fall into your rickets-disfigured lap.]
The day a pick-up artist has 100 women come to his house begging him for love and sex and he has to choose among them and reject others is the day he stops supplicating.
[So what you're saying is that almost every man alive is supplicating to women. Way to set the bar impossibly high so your failure with women seems like a success.]
Until then… Keep deluding yourself.
[Does your WoW avatar have a pockmarked ass?]
I use game but at least I’m honest with myself.
[That you accidentally grabbed your boner during a boss fight and shot magic missiles all over your monitor?]
“The day a pick-up artist has 100 women come to his house begging him for love and sex and he has to choose among them and reject others is the day he stops supplicating.”
For the record that happens. Not 100 women, but women chase us when we get to a certain skill level and we do have to pick and choose and reject a lot of them. Your comment might be sarcasm but I actually agree that this IS the point where a PUA stops supplicating. That’s where they realize “girls want me” and they can drop the training wheels (routines and such) and build themselves back up with a solid foundation that they didn’t have when they were betas googling “how to get girls”.
This is the full circle cycle that happens on the PUA’s journey. It’s also the stuff that people gloss over or don’t know about when theyre busy writing “Jim carey feel-good beliefs” and “omg look at this shocking NEG thing!!!!” comments/articles.
Beginners / intermediate pick up guys usually do supplicate horribly to get the lay. They lie, change their identity on a whim, and pursue lost causes far too much. They talk too much, give too much value, and their life revolves around chasing pussy.
It’s not till they get better that they can get laid without diminishing themselves as men. I think that’s what the MRAs are getting at.
Well, I hope so. That’s what I’ve been writing about recently.
100% true. There is a cycle to going from beta through PUA to alpha that people who skim the surface don’t really understand. They just see the routines and don’t get how those are training wheels so they label it supplication.
And to be fair, a lot of PUAs don’t actually get past the dancing monkey stage and those are the blatant fuzzy hat “so I was saving my stripper girlfriend from snakes…” guys that you can easily pick out of a crowd at the bar and like the Horse Girl story way back on the Chateau those guys come across as supplicative and weird.
But just as any martial artist learns that getting your blackbelt isn’t the end, it’s where you’re finally ready to really learn, the game goes far beyond “who lies more, men or women”.
Many male haters of game can be summed upped as follows:
Easier to rationalize game away then go through the painful changes and work needed in order to learn and internalize game.
People love to say “gamesmen put pussy on the pedestal by spending so much time working towards it! Pussy rules their lives!”
Wake the fuck up. If you are a man, YOU WERE BORN OBSESSED WITH PUSSY.
Gamesmen have merely figured the most efficient way to get it.
Some make pussy their sole obsession and don’t peruse other pursuits so vigorously. However, many more make the learning of game just another tool in their arsenal towards living the life they want to live.
People love to hate on others and try to hold other people back. It’s easier to try and hold others back than move forward yourself.
Game isn’t an easy road. Aside from the girls aspect of it it required a lot of self-analysis and looking at your personal beliefs and all those little ego-protecting tidbits you hid at the back of your mind to avoid dealing with, and then you have to not just accept that you might not be perfect or a good person or living up to your potential as a human being let alone as a man, but then you have to work on those parts of you and fix them.
On top of all that you have to deal with seeing the world thru a new lens and seeing the shitty side of humanity in the married girl who gives you head in the bathroom while her husband is looking for her, the way men AMOG and treat eachother like shit, the way people lie to themselves about their motives and backwards rationalize crappy behavior with “it just happened” and avoid taking responsibility for their actions.
Going out one weekend and asking a girl if her nails are real and getting shot down does not make you an experienced PUA who can brush it all off ass pussy obsession/supplication. Stuffing feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.
For what it’s worth:
I’ve been heavily involved in various PUA communities over the years and no one gives a shit about MRAs. There’s no war, there’s no “hey what do you guys think about what this MRA said?”. Like, there might be some PUAs trolling their comment section or something, but seriously, probably 99% of PUAs have no idea MRAs exist.
I gave their shit a skim and it seems fuckin weird and angry to me. PUAs don’t hate women, a lot of guys come to pickup WITH some anger toward women because their chick cheated on them or they got rejected but our teachings snuff that out quick because it’s simply not a productive mindset to have.
The MRAs seem kind of like religious fanatics but determined to have a “no girls allowed” club to the extreme for the rest of their lives in some kind of weird attempt to punish them. It’s fuckin strange and creepy to me, but I don’t know enough about their beliefs to pass a full out judgement…hell, PUA looks strange and creepy to outsiders so who am I to talk lol
Honestly PUAs just don’t give a shit. We understand and accept that women sometimes do fucked up things and that most of society favors them, but we’re not trying to change the system or anything. We’re fine with the system because we’ve learned how I work within it to get what we want.
For instance we LIKE shit-tests. They weed out our competition and we know how to pass shit-tests and we know that passing them builds attraction extra fast, plus we understand the psychology of why women NEED to shit-test men. MRAs seem like the guys that would get mad and frustrated and hate women for shit-testing, from what I’ve skimmed over.
The place both sides are coming from are probably why the two haven’t merged even tho from the outside they may both look equally misogynistic and like they SHOULD merge.
Hazarding a guess as to why MRAs know about PUAs but PUAs don’t know about MRA: if you’re pissed at women and are looking for tools to use and discard, hurt, exact revenge, etc on them, you’ll probably stumble onto pickup theory like a bully taking up Karate to beat people up. But if you’re a guy who’s just shy and frustrated he can’t get laid but doesn’t have a hate-on, you’re likely to find PUA and never really bother looking at anything MRA-ish, like a person taking Karate for self defense won’t decide to suddenly become a bully.
Just my thoughts. No animosity toward MRAs, I just don’t understand them lol
This thread got way out of whack above because it falsely defined MRA as the kind of MGTOW or religious anti-premarital sex type whom women like to divorce and otherwise abuse by virtue of their inherent betatude.
That might be 50% of MRAs but the other 50% of MRAs have taken over the PUAsphere and redesigned it in their image. Now we have PUA/MRAs like Heartiste (who helped a lot in his own transformation and visa versa).
And most guys here are now PUA/MRAs if they’re smart.
For instance, any real alpha is going to need to check IDs. Girls will lie that they’re 18 in order to fuck an alpha.
So good PUAs put themselves in DIRE DANGER OF JAIL by virtue of being good at what they do and or alpha.
That age of consent issue alone is why a smart PUA is an MRA.
The Cain Sexual Harassment story also shows PUAs that they have to be MRAs to work to stop the feminist nonsense. Do alphas here really think they can expect to run for President and not have jilted pumps and dumps coming out of the woodwork claiming “sexual harassment”?
That’s naive. PUAs face the highest likelihood of future political attacks.
To that end, there have been 3 big feminist memes expressed by some PUAs above who don’t seem to understand that they need to call themselves PUA/MRAs.
Criticism of Cain as a “beta” based on this Chicago woman’s story should not make you think Sexual Harassment laws are OK to remain on the books as law, because you think you would never be accused because you’re “alpha”.
Thinking that way serves the feminists. They want “alphas” to say “We’d never get accused of sexual harassment because we’re smoother”.
Believe me, the feminists want “alphas” to be relaxed around these laws because alphas as MRAs might actually get the laws reversed.
Alphas are the real managers in society. They need to take over and manage the MRM, but not by whining on the Internet, rather by challenging the bad laws and getting foreign leaders and new media outlets to slam US feminism.
It’s mentally sick to think that alphas are not subject to the feminist laws and won’t get caught up in them and punished. Alphas arguably face a higher chance and we don’t know for sure that Cain isn’t one and didn’t make a more reasonable move on that girl, which she later embellished, that worked on plenty of other women.
It’s also scary to see some PUAs above resort to what feminists wanted men to think about things that feminists want to make illegal, such as solicitation (which now includes giving any kind of gift to a 17 year old) and anonymity (technology may force the next generation of men to identify themselves to women electronically before being allowed to speak with them) including the right to lie to women. We need to be careful when we say “Paying for sex being always beta or gamma and lying to women is always wrong.” This is what the feminists want you to say. There are circumstances when getting laid depends on a lie, such as when you’re 36 and she’s 18 but she and her parents guess you’re 29 so it’s all good for the night out on the boardwalk.
PUAs can’t afford new laws and new invasive technology cramping their style and limiting their options.
Any advanced PUA, who’s been in the corporate world or attracts 16 year olds, is an MRA. Or else he wants to go to jail.
Or he’s lying about his prowess. Even an upper beta should find himself in the position of having to check IDs, or else he’s probably not even an “upper” beta. And men should not HAVE to be legally forced to check IDs with ever expanding and tightening progressive feminist laws that the religious whacko “MRAs” might actually support.
To that end, those religious MRAs are actually the enemy of real MRAs.
They’ve subverted a movement early on and PUAs are going to need to take over the movement for real so it can go somewhere unsubverted.
What needs to happen is that the MGTOWs and anti-premarital sex divorced dads who dream only of the idea of having their kids back, need to be sidelined as the PUA/MRAs take over the general MRM.
“For instance, any real alpha is going to need to check IDs. Girls will lie that they’re 18 in order to fuck an alpha.”
…yes, we do check IDs. Part of the reason gaming at bars is popular is that presumably bouncers have to check the girls’ IDs so we know they’re of age. But even then if a chick looks young you just say “lemme see your ID” and check it, it’s no biggie. If you’re super paranoid you just stay away from chicks under 25 altogether.
If you’re gaming at a mall or something, and she turns out to be underage you just go “oh sorry lol” and back off, no one cares.
wtf does following the law have to do with MRA? Are you saying you want to fuck kids?
“PUAs face the highest likelihood of future political attacks.”
…pretty sure not a lot of PUAs care about becoming politicians. Is this seriously a concern? That’s like not going outside because you might trip on a crack on the sidewalk and hit your head on the ground and die. Like, ya that can happen, but it’s not something everyone should be worried about.
“They want “alphas” to say “We’d never get accused of sexual harassment because we’re smoother”.”
This is true. It’s why PUAs discuss avoiding and dealing with Buyer’s Remorse, Last Minute Resistance, Anti-Slut Defense, etc. Most guys don’t know shit about that and, like Caine, are creepers who get accused of sexual harassment. A guy with good game doesn’t have girls who hate him.
“Alphas arguably face a higher chance and we don’t know for sure that Cain isn’t one”
You do if you have game. It’s not some mystical “without a videocamera we can’t tell” secret. It’s in the way he’s handled the situation, it’s in the way women have come out against him, it’s in the descriptions of his moves, it’s in his general background/history with women, it’s in the eyewitness accounts from colleagues, etc.
“It’s also scary to see some PUAs above resort to what feminists wanted men to think about things that feminists want to make illegal, such as solicitation (which now includes giving any kind of gift to a 17 year old)”
wtf? Why are you giving gifts to a 17 year old? Is this the fucking kids thing again? There are plenty of girls 18+ out there dude…
“and anonymity (technology may force the next generation of men to identify themselves to women electronically before being allowed to speak with them)”
…this isn’t even a thing lol Fuck you guys are weird.
“There are circumstances when getting laid depends on a lie, such as when you’re 36 and she’s 18 but she and her parents guess you’re 29 so it’s all good for the night out on the boardwalk.”
You don’t need to lie if you’re 36 and she’s 18. Learn some fucking game and get out of your house and talk to some girls lol Have you ever talked to a girl?
“Any advanced PUA, who’s been in the corporate world or attracts 16 year olds, is an MRA. Or else he wants to go to jail.”
What? PUAs don’t want to attract 16 year olds man. In the corporate world you just follow the “don’t shit where you eat” rule where you don’t mack on your secretaries.
“Even an upper beta should find himself in the position of having to check IDs”
Why are you obsessed with hitting on kids?
Man, this comment section has made the MRA thing look creepy as hell. Go out and talk to girls, they won’t leap out of a bush and smack you in the face with their vaginas while holding papers for a lawsuit in their hand. How do you guys live like this??
So the male hypergamy radar is always on as well, too, huh? It’s not just women who are on the constant lookout for the bigger, better deal.
[Heartiste: Everyone is always on the lookout for a better deal, or at least everyone entertains the fantasy of a better deal, but women are biologically programmed to seek considerably higher status mates, and to seek them more frequently, than are men. This is why men get more complacent within relationships.
You'll note that in this post, the girl sounds like she is starting out LOWER value than her bf, so he is not so much looking for a better deal as an EQUILIBRATED deal.
She, otoh, has probably snagged a much BETTER deal than what her market value would normally dictate, thus providing proof of the predominance of female hypergamy in the dating market.]
Everyone is always on the lookout for a better deal, or at least everyone entertains the fantasy of a better deal
Women trade up. Men want more than one.
Although I’ve got to add that at times I’ve had in mind trading up, and was waiting for my status to rise to make my move.
I can hear the keyboard jockies sputtering already – but – but – but with game, you don’t NEED status.
For me, higher status enables me to aim higher. End of that conversation. When I can move up, that’s when I’m likely to.
You will never rise up in status while you believe you need to rise up in status.
High status people are high status because of their internal beliefs, not their external achievements.
You won’t listen to this though, you’ll go “ya ya whatever that’s just zen bullshit trust me for ME this is how it works.” because you’re not at that stage of the game yet. That attitude will hold you back for a long time.
My buddy hasn’t had a job in a year and he has gorgeous women begging him to fuck them. I just tapped a hot little lawyer chick today and I don’t even have a car or my own apartment or 6-pack abs.
Watch The Blueprint Decoded DVD set by Tyler Durden. It breaks down everything about status and value that you can come up with.
P.S. there’s nothing wrong with wanting to improve aspects of your life and raise your own personal level of what you consider high status. That’s good for a man to do, of course.
The catch is that you should be doing that for yourself and for your own satisfaction than so you can “level up and get the hotter chick”.
This isn’t World of Warcraft, you don’t have to collect 3 scrolls and deliver them to the old man in the village to gain access to the high status girls.
This guy practiced game in high end venues with Mystery and Style back in the day, his credentials are solid and the stuff he teaches in The Blueprint is 100% rock solid, though more in-depth and analytical than some personality types like to get.
These are some clips that relate to status/value and “trading up”. It’s all in your head.
Around 11:30 it all pulls together into something relevant to your “need higher status” post.
1) whether I am tall or not is not all in my head
2) whether I have broad shoulders or not is not all in my head
3) whether I have a small enough waist that she perceives she can comfortably wrap her legs around it or not is not all in my head
4) whether I am smarter than her or not is not all in my head
5) whether I have middle-class $ (or above) or not is not all in my head
6) whether I have movie star good looks or not is not all in my head
7) whether I actually PRACTICE Game IRL or not is not all in my head
8) whether I have enough muscle to look like I have some muscle or not is not all in my head
9) whether I have friends who aren’t losers (or fame = social proof with strangers) or not is not all in my head
10) whether I have a high-status job or not is not all in my head
these are the 10 points of attractiveness with women, and they all exist in objective reality
the winner’s mentality wants to know all the FACTS – good and bad – to know what to do to produce the desired result (Confidence: how winning and losing streaks begin and end, by Kanter)
“1) whether I am tall or not is not all in my head”
Irellevant to attraction.
“2) whether I have broad shoulders or not is not all in my head”
“3) whether I have a small enough waist that she perceives she can comfortably wrap her legs around it or not is not all in my head”
“4) whether I am smarter than her or not is not all in my head”
You are, you just don’t believe it.
“5) whether I have middle-class $ (or above) or not is not all in my head”
“6) whether I have movie star good looks or not is not all in my head”
“7) whether I actually PRACTICE Game IRL or not is not all in my head”
You have the ability to do it instead of reading this post. That you choose not to doesn’t mean you don’t have the ability already.
“8) whether I have enough muscle to look like I have some muscle or not is not all in my head”
“9) whether I have friends who aren’t losers (or fame = social proof with strangers) or not is not all in my head”
Irellevant to attraction, you can go out solo, or you can start building a social circle any time you like.
“10) whether I have a high-status job or not is not all in my head”
“these are the 10 points of attractiveness with women”
No, they aren’t. You are brainwashed.
PUAs dispensing advice to women is like agribusiness feeding growth hormone to livestock. The hens will plump up and be unable to walk, but they will deliver a reliable Same Night Egg Lay, and their eventual slaughter will yield the choicest cuts.
You first must have a genuine concern to deliver this girl salutary advice. Maybe in a moment of weakness, Heartiste has discovered some pity or compassion. But it doesn’t jibe with the ethos. Since when do alphas care about some schnozzerific lovelorn accessory of a fellow alpha? More important: what possible reason to care does an alpha have? Which maxim is that?
According to the internal logic of game, the only advice a PUA is capable of giving is one that accrues to the alpha’s benefit, and her well-being is irrelevant. Otherwise we are reaching Beyond Game. She wrote because she’s thirsty for honesty in a desert of liars and feminist mythmakers. But game is predicated on deception between the sexes. So she came for the honesty, but leaves with instructions on how to debase herself.
That advice might be what a girl like her deserves, as she has benefited from lies since birth and only now seeks truth when the advantage has begun swinging in the other direction (the justice of female aging). It may even be the best possible advice under the circumstances. But at very minimum she is not getting the guidance she thinks she is getting. She is not getting the product she requested, which cost her nothing. So she deserves a caveat emptor at least — you get what you pay for.
There is no good advice for her, just as there is no “advice” for terminal patients and handicapped people and elderly bedwetters and all the vulnerable & powerless, other than to get comfortable living at the mercy of others, if at all. She is sliding toward the short end of the power stick, and Heartiste does her a charitable service by reminding her of this approaching fact. The only thing worse than losing your power is not being aware of your diminished capacity. Hence the grotesque cougar phenomenon, those pitiable spinsters who insist they “still got it, sister.”
Lady, getting a nose job will allay some frustration, but you are nibbling around the edges of a problem you are too timid to contemplate in its full, gradually awakening horror. Find your strength in meekness and submission and compliance and modesty and humility. That is the only power that can break an alpha. It’s a silver bullet that they deny exists, and their denial makes it all the more devastating.
Alphas and PUAs, here is your test case. Imagine this girl your homely little sister or niece. Does grinding her bones to dust under the gears of social selection bother you at all, reformed-villainess & entitled-wonderbrat though she may be? Is fuck-and-chuck her lot in life, to be accommodated but never transcended?
There is a still small voice — called your conscience — and it’s not the enemy you insist it to be. If you don’t believe me, look no further than your hero and model, Heartiste, who just exercised it for all his understudies to see. And I’ll bet he feels good about helping her too, this complete stranger whom he will never fuck.
“Since when do alphas care about some schnozzerific lovelorn accessory of a fellow alpha?”
“According to the internal logic of game, the only advice a PUA is capable of giving is one that accrues to the alpha’s benefit, and her well-being is irrelevant.”
“game is predicated on deception between the sexes.”
You believe in a cartoon character version of an “alpha male”. Statements like the above are how I can tell that 1) you haven’t really studied PUA concepts, 2) you don’t go out and try to pick up girls, 3) you don’t pick up girls, and 4) you probably won’t.
“Leave them better than you found them.” has been a tennant of pickup since The Game. Not everyone follows it, but the teachings are based around it.
Please quit slandering shit you clearly haven’t given more than a passing glance and labelled with a pre-conceived judgement.
“Maybe in a moment of weakness, Heartiste has discovered some pity or compassion. But it doesn’t jibe with the ethos.”
Heartiste isn’t helping this girl out because it’s the alpha thing to do. Helping this girl out is the alpha thing to do because Heartiste is doing it. Think on this.
YaReally wrote: “‘Leave them better than you found them.’ has been a tennant [sic] of pickup since The Game.”
So ch “picked” her “up”? What possible reason does he have for helping her?
He can’t “leave her better than” he found her because he never had her at all. The policy makes sense for the women a PUA dates (or even flirts with). But for an emailer?
Your canned, repetitive, fortune-cookie bleating, like everything else you write, appears to have been gleaned from some Seduction Manual, the very ownership of which marks you as a certain kind of pathetic striver. And you say I’m the one trafficking in cartoons?
I have zero interest in your Great Seduction Manuals For Men library and the life-advice therefrom that so constitutes your identity. The whole industry is Oprah for the sexually frustrated herb, Chicken Soup for the Socially Inept, self-help guides for rising nerds who missed key male rites of passage, such as learning how to spontaneously adjust your approach to women without some weird-haired former-geek (“I was just like you are!”) infomercial salesman giving you “the secrets.”
Now you will take this as evidence of my total social ineptness, as you and your game-besotted cortex are programmed to do. How could anyone be successful with the ladies without going to at least one Tyler Durden seminar? How could one function on the social scene without having read “101 Rock-Solid Seduction Techniques GUARANTEED TO GET YOU LAID TONITE” or subscribing to this penetrating website:
My God, man. Have a little pride. Does any part of you still cringe at this snake-oil?
“So ch “picked” her “up”?”
He interacted with her (via his blog). An alpha makes the people around him better. This bit here is the cartoon character shit I’m talking about. “But he didn’t put his penis in her1!1 1 that means this no counttt1!1 me can’t wrap head around shit that every nuance isnt spelled out teh step by step!1″
I’m hoping you’re just being deliberately obtuse for the sake of trolling.
“But game is predicated on deception between the sexes.”
Please quit speaking for PUAs when you’re not one, and please quit wrongly summarizing our teachings when you’ve clearly given them only a brief glance-over and then crammed them into a pre-conceived box of cartoonish stereotypes in your head.
You will never rise up in status while you believe you need to rise up in status.
High status people are high status because of their internal beliefs, not their external achievements.
Oh God, here we go.
I’ll never rise in status as long as I believe that I need to rise in status?
What kind of Jim Carey mumbo jumbo new age bullshit “I create my reality through positive visualizations” coolaid did you swallow?
Working hard on my business raises my business. It doesn’t raise from prayer and visualization and positive mental beliefs. And yes, working on it was effective, and my business did improve. And along with it my status, as evidenced by the outward displays of status, including control over employees and property.
I was getting laid fine when I was broke. But when I had a live in girlfriend living with me in an eight hundred dollar A YEAR unfurnished hovel where the only furniture was a old foam twin mattress on the floor and a 15 inch TV in one room, my prospects for upgrading were not as good as when I had two luxury apartments.
But noooooooooooooooooo. That was all in my head.
Here we go. Call out the Jim Carey looneys.
“Working hard on my business raises my business.”
True. It doesn’t affect women’s attraction.
“It doesn’t raise from prayer and visualization and positive mental beliefs.”
Never said that. I was talking specifically about women because your previous post said you were waiting to “trade up” till you had higher status.
“And along with it my status, as evidenced by the outward displays of status, including control over employees and property.”
Super duper. Not relevant to attraction, unless you’re bringing the girls around to your business so she can see you leading your employees.
“I was getting laid fine when I was broke. But when I had a live in girlfriend living with me in an eight hundred dollar A YEAR unfurnished hovel where the only furniture was a old foam twin mattress on the floor and a 15 inch TV in one room, my prospects for upgrading were not as good as when I had two luxury apartments.”
This is where you’re mentally stuck. You were getting laid fine when you were broke. You were just as able to get laid when you were in your $800/yr shithole as you were with two luxury apartments, except that you attach your identity to “having stuff”. “I’m not good enough until I have this stuff” It’s the exact same thing as the guy who thinks getting a Ferrari or having a $500k/yr job will get him girls. You’re still attaching your value externally.
You’re welcome to keep your limiting beliefs, it doesn’t affect my life, but realize that that’s all they are.
there’s no better evidence that the backturn works on women than the fact that women use it ALL THE TIME on men.
try recalling how often you’ve seen hot chicks just abruptly turn around or otherwise get distracted when men are trying to hit on them. keep your eyes peeled for this sort of classic alpha female behavior and you’ll see it happen everywhere.
So how would you respond to such an IOD from a girl? Call her out on it in some way, or ignore it and neg later?
Loud and authoritatively: “HEY. Don’t be fucking rude.” often with a grab of her upper arm to turn her back around and bring her back into your bodyspace.
Most newbies won’t be able to pull this off though, the key is in your tonality and where it’s coming from in your headspace:
If your headspace is “please turn around so I can try to win you over” it won’t work and you’ll creep her out. If your headspace is “I expect basic politeness and respect from the people around me, you are acting like a brat” it will work and make her gina tingle.
The backturn is used by hot chicks to reject men. It’s an easy way to ignore his attention without confronting him directly. Grabbing and yelling “don’t be fucking rude” at a woman who has already rejected you looks weird and desperate.
The only way I could see this working is if a) she’s already attracted to you and is using the backturn as a coy, “playing hard-to-get” ploy, OR b) you’re extremely cocky and playful about it, like “get over here you saucy little brat.”
Otherwise, getting butt-hurt with total strangers over “basic politeness and respect” isn’t very fun or sexy.
Go out and pick up chicks more.
Sometimes, I’m under the impression that the mere fact that game works proves that women are crazy.
Not seeking high status, not hypergamous, not low self esteem: goo goo ga ga C-R-A-Z-Y!
Lucky that I enjoy interacting with crazy people.
I say again, unto thee: it’s not a bug, it’s a feature. If they weren’t batshit crazy, our masterful techniques & alphatude would have no effect, or ill effect.
Lucky for us, the hamster is a device that shields a woman’s mind from the crazy machinations of her inner mating instincts; if her consciousness would have to be in full contact with her inner drives, she’d be not only crazy but delusional as well. Thus the hamster serves women in that they get to at least appear sane (to blue-pill chuggers).
“If they weren’t batshit crazy, our masterful techniques & alphatude would have no effect, or ill effect.”
it depends on how you define crazy. the only actual definition that might come close to justifying your comment is “foolish”, because it is so subjective. womens responses to game actually make a lot of sense because game is designed to convey desirable personality traits (confidence, strength, intelligence, leader etc). This all makes sense because women have different manifestations of these traits and to raise children to viability, a man with the opposite polarity is a huge strategic asset.
the hamster is just a way for women to consciously rationalize truths they cannot or will not accept: that they are vulnerable and their ideal mate is also the riskiest partner (in that he will stray and leave them in single motherhood). that doesn’t sound crazy to me; that strikes me of as the epitome of rationality.
This is a good point and why I always stress not to judge or blame girls for doing their crazy shit. Once you understand why they do what they do it actually makes complete sense and you realize they’re predictably irrational and that’s why game works. They aren’t using the same logic a man does and their hamster keeps them from understanding their own logic, but it really is in there doing its thing in an organized chaos sort of manner.